Comments for cardiff radical socialist forum http://cardiffpr.wordpress.com Sat, 27 Jun 2009 08:10:11 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 Comment on SWP’s open letter on left unity: how the left is responding by Frank http://cardiffpr.wordpress.com/2009/06/25/swps-open-letter-on-left-unity/#comment-1296 Frank Sat, 27 Jun 2009 08:10:11 +0000 http://cardiffpr.wordpress.com/?p=689#comment-1296 A useful resource to read is a pamphlet by Leon Trotsky published by Pathfinder Press 'Fascism what it is and how to fight it'. With a wise introduction by George Lavan Weissman about using the term fascist very loosely. A useful resource to read is a pamphlet by Leon Trotsky published by Pathfinder Press ‘Fascism what it is and how to fight it’.
With a wise introduction by George Lavan Weissman about using the term fascist very loosely.

]]> Comment on SWP’s open letter on left unity: how the left is responding by Frank http://cardiffpr.wordpress.com/2009/06/25/swps-open-letter-on-left-unity/#comment-1286 Frank Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:23:14 +0000 http://cardiffpr.wordpress.com/?p=689#comment-1286 I think the left should seriously dig out how in the past Marxists sort to unite disparate groups and factions. I'm biased towards the CPGB line of eventualy forming a Communist party, with permanent and temporary factions. I think the left should seriously dig out how in the past Marxists sort to unite disparate groups and factions. I’m biased towards the CPGB line of eventualy forming a Communist party, with permanent and temporary factions.

]]> Comment on No2ID – with friends like these, who needs enemies? by Garry Bushell http://cardiffpr.wordpress.com/2008/07/10/no2id-with-friends-like-these-who-needs-enemies/#comment-1121 Garry Bushell Wed, 27 May 2009 15:11:29 +0000 http://cardiffpr.wordpress.com/?p=209#comment-1121 Firstly, I have never said that any town hall should be forced to fly an English flag, just that it plays into the hands of bigots when po-faced 'socialist' councils try and suppress English patriotism. Secondly, I have never argued that all asylum seekers should be denied entry to the UK. Finally, I am not a member of any political party but I do believe that an English Parliament would be a democractic step forward - a belief that is shared by as many on the left as the right. To compound your wrong-headedness, I was actually at the picket line at Grunwicks on a couple of occasions. Try not to forget that the people who have been stripping the British of their hard-won democratic rights for the last twelve years consider themselves to be socialists. Firstly, I have never said that any town hall should be forced to fly an English flag, just that it plays into the hands of bigots when po-faced ’socialist’ councils try and suppress English patriotism.
Secondly, I have never argued that all asylum seekers should be denied entry to the UK.
Finally, I am not a member of any political party but I do believe that an English Parliament would be a democractic step forward – a belief that is shared by as many on the left as the right.
To compound your wrong-headedness, I was actually at the picket line at Grunwicks on a couple of occasions.
Try not to forget that the people who have been stripping the British of their hard-won democratic rights for the last twelve years consider themselves to be socialists.

]]> Comment on No2eu – yes to what? by jonblake12 http://cardiffpr.wordpress.com/2009/05/14/no2eu-yes-to-what/#comment-1083 jonblake12 Thu, 21 May 2009 13:41:20 +0000 http://cardiffpr.wordpress.com/?p=656#comment-1083 Do you think the founders of the Labour Party aimed to set up a passive poodle party of the capitalist class? A couple of years ago the SP and others on the left claimed there had been a fundamental change in the nature of Labour because of the financial support it enjoyed from capitalists. Now, surprise surprise, those capitalists have melted away and Labour is over 90% dependent on trade unions: the same kind of bourgeois workers party that Militant once religiously instructed its supporters to enter - until this became impossible due to the witchhunts which PR members (then in Workers Power) fought tooth and nail. I myself went up to Walton for that watershed by-election when Militant stood Lesley Mahmood against the imposed Labour candidate (unfortunately I wasn't allowed to canvass as I belonged to a different left group). We susequently called for votes for Nellist and Fields at the general election and publicly apologised for not supporting Sheridan, having underestimated the support he enjoyed. PR apply a consistent and honest method when it comes to elections, all of which can be found in the electoral theses on our website. We do encourage open debate in our role within the forum, but I will not deny our view that no2eu, rather than being a challenge to the BNP and UKIP, is actually a present for them, conceding the argument that Europe is the bogeyman as far as UK workers are concerned. It is an open secret that SP leaders were totally opposed to key policies of no2eu - for example that elected MEPs don't take their seat. The first casualty of opportunism is the truth, and now I am afraid you are no better than any bourgeois politician in ducking and diving to defend a rotten relic of Stalinism. That's all I'm willing to say on the matter in this comments forum, but I'll happily discuss these matters either at a socialist forum meeting or informally afterwards. Do you think the founders of the Labour Party aimed to set up a passive poodle party of the capitalist class?

A couple of years ago the SP and others on the left claimed there had been a fundamental change in the nature of Labour because of the financial support it enjoyed from capitalists. Now, surprise surprise, those capitalists have melted away and Labour is over 90% dependent on trade unions: the same kind of bourgeois workers party that Militant once religiously instructed its supporters to enter – until this became impossible due to the witchhunts which PR members (then in Workers Power) fought tooth and nail.

I myself went up to Walton for that watershed by-election when Militant stood Lesley Mahmood against the imposed Labour candidate (unfortunately I wasn’t allowed to canvass as I belonged to a different left group). We susequently called for votes for Nellist and Fields at the general election and publicly apologised for not supporting Sheridan, having underestimated the support he enjoyed.

PR apply a consistent and honest method when it comes to elections, all of which can be found in the electoral theses on our website.

We do encourage open debate in our role within the forum, but I will not deny our view that no2eu, rather than being a challenge to the BNP and UKIP, is actually a present for them, conceding the argument that Europe is the bogeyman as far as UK workers are concerned. It is an open secret that SP leaders were totally opposed to key policies of no2eu – for example that elected MEPs don’t take their seat. The first casualty of opportunism is the truth, and now I am afraid you are no better than any bourgeois politician in ducking and diving to defend a rotten relic of Stalinism.

That’s all I’m willing to say on the matter in this comments forum, but I’ll happily discuss these matters either at a socialist forum meeting or informally afterwards.

]]> Comment on No2eu – yes to what? by Leon Engels http://cardiffpr.wordpress.com/2009/05/14/no2eu-yes-to-what/#comment-1081 Leon Engels Thu, 21 May 2009 10:42:21 +0000 http://cardiffpr.wordpress.com/?p=656#comment-1081 the views do differ yes but not for the reasons stated the SP has no intention of setting up a labour party mark 2., but a genuine fighting party of the working class. Yes the article does pose no2eu in a bad light, just look at the picture chosen. In the 70's the labour party was a workers party all be it with a capitalist leadership, but to most people this has clearly changed. I think debate on this issue is clearly an important issue to debate so mistakes of the past are not repeated. For example was it right for members of PR to call for a vote for a right-wing labour candidate over the marxist Dave Nellist, the sitting MP the views do differ yes but not for the reasons stated the SP has no intention of setting up a labour party mark 2., but a genuine fighting party of the working class.

Yes the article does pose no2eu in a bad light, just look at the picture chosen.

In the 70’s the labour party was a workers party all be it with a capitalist leadership, but to most people this has clearly changed. I think debate on this issue is clearly an important issue to debate so mistakes of the past are not repeated.

For example was it right for members of PR to call for a vote for a right-wing labour candidate over the marxist Dave Nellist, the sitting MP

]]> Comment on No2eu – yes to what? by jonblake12 http://cardiffpr.wordpress.com/2009/05/14/no2eu-yes-to-what/#comment-1075 jonblake12 Wed, 20 May 2009 14:03:32 +0000 http://cardiffpr.wordpress.com/?p=656#comment-1075 The brief leader above expresses the fact that there are two opposing views on no2eu, then gives links to blogs which also express both views. Perhaps Leon is confused by actually hearing a different view other than that which is publicly professed by the Socialist Party despite their profound misgivings about the project. The aim of the forum is to discuss exactly the question of whether no2eu is progressive and supportable by socialists or not. Leon is more than welcome to attend and take part in that discussion. The Labour Party has always been a contradiction, built and paid for by workers, acting on behalf of capitalists. Both the SP, when Militant, and the SWP routinely called for a vote for Labour no matter how right wing their policies had been - think the Lib-Lab pact of the 70s. I suggest Leon checks the SP's own archives to understand why. The question of whether now is the time to call for a new workers party is certainly worthy of discussion - but the idea we need to build a Labour Psrty mark 2, and repeat history, in order to build a revolutionary socialist party is certainly one where PR and the SP profoundly differ. The brief leader above expresses the fact that there are two opposing views on no2eu, then gives links to blogs which also express both views.

Perhaps Leon is confused by actually hearing a different view other than that which is publicly professed by the Socialist Party despite their profound misgivings about the project.

The aim of the forum is to discuss exactly the question of whether no2eu is progressive and supportable by socialists or not. Leon is more than welcome to attend and take part in that discussion.

The Labour Party has always been a contradiction, built and paid for by workers, acting on behalf of capitalists. Both the SP, when Militant, and the SWP routinely called for a vote for Labour no matter how right wing their policies had been – think the Lib-Lab pact of the 70s. I suggest Leon checks the SP’s own archives to understand why.

The question of whether now is the time to call for a new workers party is certainly worthy of discussion – but the idea we need to build a Labour Psrty mark 2, and repeat history, in order to build a revolutionary socialist party is certainly one where PR and the SP profoundly differ.

]]> Comment on No2eu – yes to what? by Leon Engels http://cardiffpr.wordpress.com/2009/05/14/no2eu-yes-to-what/#comment-1072 Leon Engels Wed, 20 May 2009 12:25:34 +0000 http://cardiffpr.wordpress.com/?p=656#comment-1072 This seems to me to be a very one-sided view of what is actually taking place. Yes the programme is very limited, however it is a progressive campaign, a left-wing trade union iniated challenge to the main parties. As this article was posted by permanent revolution I'd like to ask what theier alternative, would they call for a vote for the anti-worker new labour project as they have done so many times? Or will they vote for a pro-worker trade union backed alternative that could the the spark needed for other unions to brake from new labour and forge a new party! Leon Engels This seems to me to be a very one-sided view of what is actually taking place. Yes the programme is very limited, however it is a progressive campaign, a left-wing trade union iniated challenge to the main parties.

As this article was posted by permanent revolution I’d like to ask what theier alternative, would they call for a vote for the anti-worker new labour project as they have done so many times? Or will they vote for a pro-worker trade union backed alternative that could the the spark needed for other unions to brake from new labour and forge a new party!

Leon Engels

]]> Comment on As G20 meet, time to make capitalism history by bill j http://cardiffpr.wordpress.com/2009/03/28/as-g20-meet-time-to-make-capitalism-history/#comment-924 bill j Thu, 16 Apr 2009 19:37:19 +0000 http://cardiffpr.wordpress.com/?p=599#comment-924 As Rob says nobodies perfect. Do you want PR to confess that we didn't predict the depth of the current recession? No problem - we didn't. The point is though has the current recession been ongoing for the last four decades? Workers Power our former organisation said that the world economy was stagnant throughout the boom from 2003-2007, what the Economist called the fastest period of growth in human history. Funnily enough so did the SWP. Was that correct? China and India are offsetting this current crisis. The Chinese reflation hasn't really got going yet, lending only really began in December. Yet already in the first three months of 2009 banks had lent as much as in the whole of 2008. Will that pull the world out of its present mire. Don't need to predict, we'll know by the summer. As Rob says nobodies perfect. Do you want PR to confess that we didn’t predict the depth of the current recession? No problem – we didn’t.
The point is though has the current recession been ongoing for the last four decades? Workers Power our former organisation said that the world economy was stagnant throughout the boom from 2003-2007, what the Economist called the fastest period of growth in human history.
Funnily enough so did the SWP.
Was that correct?
China and India are offsetting this current crisis. The Chinese reflation hasn’t really got going yet, lending only really began in December. Yet already in the first three months of 2009 banks had lent as much as in the whole of 2008.
Will that pull the world out of its present mire. Don’t need to predict, we’ll know by the summer.

]]> Comment on As G20 meet, time to make capitalism history by permanentrevolution http://cardiffpr.wordpress.com/2009/03/28/as-g20-meet-time-to-make-capitalism-history/#comment-874 permanentrevolution Wed, 01 Apr 2009 15:46:58 +0000 http://cardiffpr.wordpress.com/?p=599#comment-874 Bear in mind Rob that PR didn't exist in 2004 - this article was one comrade's view when in Workers Power and its prediction has never been ratified by PR as a group, merely the more general point that capitalism was not stagnating and had enough room to breathe to preclude a revolutionary crisis for some time to come, notwithstanding the current recession. The best place to conduct this discussion is on PR's main site, where the matters which concern you are currently being debated. Bear in mind Rob that PR didn’t exist in 2004 – this article was one comrade’s view when in Workers Power and its prediction has never been ratified by PR as a group, merely the more general point that capitalism was not stagnating and had enough room to breathe to preclude a revolutionary crisis for some time to come, notwithstanding the current recession. The best place to conduct this discussion is on PR’s main site, where the matters which concern you are currently being debated.

]]> Comment on As G20 meet, time to make capitalism history by rob http://cardiffpr.wordpress.com/2009/03/28/as-g20-meet-time-to-make-capitalism-history/#comment-873 rob Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:46:46 +0000 http://cardiffpr.wordpress.com/?p=599#comment-873 This article from 2004 has got the stuff I meant. http://www.permanentrevolution.net/entry/309 Apparrently the world economy was in a long wave upwards where recessions are less severe and shallow due to the growth in economies such as China and India.The growth of their proportion of world trade being enough to offset the dead weight of the older imperialist countries which are still sufferring from over accumulation. This was going to last for around two business cycles at least and a business cycle is apparrently around seven years. Interesting stuff.I shall keep reading. This article from 2004 has got the stuff I meant.
http://www.permanentrevolution.net/entry/309
Apparrently the world economy was in a long wave upwards where recessions are less severe and shallow due to the growth in economies such as China and India.The growth of their proportion of world trade being enough to offset the dead weight of the older imperialist countries which are still sufferring from over accumulation. This was going to last for around two business cycles at least and a business cycle is apparrently around seven years.
Interesting stuff.I shall keep reading.

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