No2eu – yes to what?

bob-crowWith Euro elections imminent, the electoral coalition founded by Bob Crow and the RMT leadership has generated intense debate on the left: for some, such as the Socialist Party and the Communist Party of Britain, it is a workers’ initiative which must be supported. To others, no2eu is nothing short of a disaster, a sop to national chauvinism devoid of socialist principles.

The next meeting of the socialist forum in Cardiff, on Thurs 28 May, will address the issue.

The meeting will take place upstairs at the Owain Glyndwr, by St John’s Church, Cardiff, from 7.30pm. As usual we will seek to have an open, informed and comradely discussion.

Below are some of the blogs discussing no2eu:
Boffy blog
A Very Public Sociologist
Shiraz Socialist
Serge’s Fist

This entry was posted in crow, politics, socialism, unite, Wales and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

4 Responses to No2eu – yes to what?

  1. Leon Engels says:

    This seems to me to be a very one-sided view of what is actually taking place. Yes the programme is very limited, however it is a progressive campaign, a left-wing trade union iniated challenge to the main parties.

    As this article was posted by permanent revolution I’d like to ask what theier alternative, would they call for a vote for the anti-worker new labour project as they have done so many times? Or will they vote for a pro-worker trade union backed alternative that could the the spark needed for other unions to brake from new labour and forge a new party!

    Leon Engels

  2. jonblake12 says:

    The brief leader above expresses the fact that there are two opposing views on no2eu, then gives links to blogs which also express both views.

    Perhaps Leon is confused by actually hearing a different view other than that which is publicly professed by the Socialist Party despite their profound misgivings about the project.

    The aim of the forum is to discuss exactly the question of whether no2eu is progressive and supportable by socialists or not. Leon is more than welcome to attend and take part in that discussion.

    The Labour Party has always been a contradiction, built and paid for by workers, acting on behalf of capitalists. Both the SP, when Militant, and the SWP routinely called for a vote for Labour no matter how right wing their policies had been – think the Lib-Lab pact of the 70s. I suggest Leon checks the SP’s own archives to understand why.

    The question of whether now is the time to call for a new workers party is certainly worthy of discussion – but the idea we need to build a Labour Psrty mark 2, and repeat history, in order to build a revolutionary socialist party is certainly one where PR and the SP profoundly differ.

  3. Leon Engels says:

    the views do differ yes but not for the reasons stated the SP has no intention of setting up a labour party mark 2., but a genuine fighting party of the working class.

    Yes the article does pose no2eu in a bad light, just look at the picture chosen.

    In the 70’s the labour party was a workers party all be it with a capitalist leadership, but to most people this has clearly changed. I think debate on this issue is clearly an important issue to debate so mistakes of the past are not repeated.

    For example was it right for members of PR to call for a vote for a right-wing labour candidate over the marxist Dave Nellist, the sitting MP

  4. jonblake12 says:

    Do you think the founders of the Labour Party aimed to set up a passive poodle party of the capitalist class?

    A couple of years ago the SP and others on the left claimed there had been a fundamental change in the nature of Labour because of the financial support it enjoyed from capitalists. Now, surprise surprise, those capitalists have melted away and Labour is over 90% dependent on trade unions: the same kind of bourgeois workers party that Militant once religiously instructed its supporters to enter – until this became impossible due to the witchhunts which PR members (then in Workers Power) fought tooth and nail.

    I myself went up to Walton for that watershed by-election when Militant stood Lesley Mahmood against the imposed Labour candidate (unfortunately I wasn’t allowed to canvass as I belonged to a different left group). We susequently called for votes for Nellist and Fields at the general election and publicly apologised for not supporting Sheridan, having underestimated the support he enjoyed.

    PR apply a consistent and honest method when it comes to elections, all of which can be found in the electoral theses on our website.

    We do encourage open debate in our role within the forum, but I will not deny our view that no2eu, rather than being a challenge to the BNP and UKIP, is actually a present for them, conceding the argument that Europe is the bogeyman as far as UK workers are concerned. It is an open secret that SP leaders were totally opposed to key policies of no2eu – for example that elected MEPs don’t take their seat. The first casualty of opportunism is the truth, and now I am afraid you are no better than any bourgeois politician in ducking and diving to defend a rotten relic of Stalinism.

    That’s all I’m willing to say on the matter in this comments forum, but I’ll happily discuss these matters either at a socialist forum meeting or informally afterwards.

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